Global Trade This Week – March 20th, 2023

What’s going on in Global Trade this Week? Today Doug Draper of Inland Star Distribution and Trade Geek Pete Mento of Mento LLC cover:

1:55 -Supply Chain Stability - Get Conservative or Get Aggressive?
10:55 -BCOs Easily See $1,000 for 40’ Containers to West Coast
15:13 -Halftime
23:07 -Rail Update - CP & KCS to Officially Merge on April 14 for $31B
27:27 -US/UK FTA Is Going Nowhere. Why?

• Full Show Transcript

  Keenan Brugh 0:00

  You're watching Global Trade This Week with Pete Mento and Doug Draper.

  Pete Mento 0:07

  Everyone and welcome to what I'm sure it's going to be an instant classic. Here that duck I didn't call it I call it epic, instant classic of global trade this week brought to you by our friends at CAP logistics. To learn more about CAP logistics, visit them at their website at cap logistics.com I am Pete metto. And as always, I am joined by my super handsome always Stafford dressed always go with a more casual business casual dressed friend Doug Draper. Doug, how are you, buddy?

  Doug Draper 0:42

  I'm doing great Pete. It's a blue shirt day. So I appreciate you getting the memo.

  Pete Mento 0:48

  Do this seriously. duckies I'm not wearing blue.

  Doug Draper 0:51

  I can't tell it's black. Johnny Cash black.

  Pete Mento 0:56

  Yeah. I'm wearing Johnny Cash. But I've got my Columbia always support brands that have supported me. Columbia. Jeff, twos love you, buddy. Out there in Portland, Oregon. But I would see you're wearing purple. So is this like a Pixel THING? Or my old eyes getting worse?

  Doug Draper 1:16

  It Your eyes are getting worse. This is a nice blue right right out of the dry cleaners looking good on a Monday. Good.

  Pete Mento 1:25

  telling you, man, this is casual. Always looking good. Doug, we are very happy to do with you again for what is I'm sure to be another great addition. So Keenan is outski in the back country, you know, living off of bark, berries, some eggs that they found in some stray errant mountain chickens. And push buttons force out there. But Doug, you got you, you have won the coin toss and you have elected to receive. So you're on offense first this week, and you're gonna have the first topic so quite hit me, buddy.

  Doug Draper 1:58

  Awesome. So this topic actually comes from a good friend of ours. Mr. Mark Conrad Saxelby Conrad was Mr. M, Conrad's actually,

  Pete Mento 2:09

  gotta say, I gotta say, last week him sending us the video of him in the gym. While he's listening to the show, I don't know. I was just waiting for him to like Terry shirt off Hulk COVID style. It was a little bit upsetting. But thank you, Mark for supporting.

  Doug Draper 2:28

  You can't unsee that, unfortunately. But we were chit chatting. And he came up with this topic. Right. It's a great topic. So I gotta give. Gotta give Sachs the credit. And the topic was the crystal ball stability. And we were talking about that a little bit. And here's the gist of it. Right. So I think everybody is still trying to figure out post COVID. And we talked about logistics purchasing, trying to figure out what the consumer is going to be doing in the future. And it's almost like, people are wanting to have a crystal ball and wait, like, what what do we do now? Do we pivot left? Do we pivot? Right? And from some experiences that we both had, it seems like we're trying to trying to figure that out. So really, the gist of it Pete Is it in forget supply chain logistics people in general. They want clarity and stability in their lives. And they want it in their relationships. Kids need it, as you know, with with kids they need, they need the stability out there so they can be raised properly. And supply chain and logistics procurement professionals needed as well. And they're just, we're seeing that, like, what do you do? Do we go left or right meaning? I'm going to put this into categories? Pete It's the it's the cold trickle approach from Days of Thunder. You remember that movie from 20 years ago? Yeah, yeah, the cold trickle. And that's whenever he was racing, and there was some wreck on the on the track. And I can't remember Gosh, who was the guy that was his? His head of his team. But anyway, he said, Hey, there's a wreck going around the wreck, you can drive through it. I know it I know in my heart drive through it, which basically means just put, put the pedal down and drive through the chaos and see what comes on the other end. So that's one approach is to say, you know, we're going to try and we're going to move forward and we're gonna do this thing. The other approach is the other bucket is is a old adage that some of our older listeners will know it says nobody gets fired for buying IBM, right. So you got reliability, reliability and innovation. So I think the crystal ball may not give you one direction or another. And that's okay. Right. So you got the cold trickle effect, which just like put the gas down, we're going in this direction. And we're gonna do something. And then the other take is, you know what, let's just nobody gets fired. For buying IBM, nobody gets fired from taking a slower approach and, and analyzing it and going from there. So I think it's fine, both of them are fine, but be deliberate about it. Pete don't just sit in, in the middle. So if you're the cold trickle effect, and you just want to kind of say, I think we need to go here, and you're going to put the gas down, and you're just going to drive through it. Or if you're going to be a little more passive, and it makes sure nobody gets fired for buying IBM, I'm good with either one. Pete, I'm good with it. But make sure you're deliberate in your decision, because the you know, having an instability is what we don't want. So the question, do you Pete, are you a cold trickle or buying IBM type of guy,

  Pete Mento 5:51

  but economists will tell you that markets desire and long for stability. And they hate the hate a vacuum, they, they certainly hate lack of information with it, what they all want, is stability, they'll desire stability. I agree with you on that. And then the more More to the point, what they really, really hate, his lack of lack of information. And right now, that's what we're, we're all longing for it. So prior to TPM is an example where we were all running around, trying to gather bits and pieces, nooks and crannies on what was going to happen next. I know you were doing this, I was certainly doing this. I was calling everybody during TPM because I wasn't in Long Beach. I was in New Hampshire. And I was calling everybody what's going on where people saying, you know, and we were all getting information back. And we were all trying to find out where these short sales is going to continue. We're going to continue to see these canceled sailings, what was happening, and that lack of information causes people to bet. It causes them to constantly, you know, it causes us all to, to go out into the marketplace and do things based on bad information, or sometimes good information. But one way or the other. We're speculating. And speculation is always done on good information or bad information. But it's speculation on the west. So so many of us have been doing that lately. Whereas before we all knew what was happening during COVID. No space, no chips, crap rates, way too much stuff, right? We were all working on the same assumptions. But we're back to where we were before, which is really not knowing what's going on. And that's getting better. It's getting better because we're getting better information. So we're in that in between space right now. It to me, Wow, ahead. To me, it's dude, the information that you've had in the past, it's really depend on people that had been in this business before that have seen what's going on, you know, Armstrong and associate chuck them. I think it's every month, Doug. Because every month, we put out a very detailed, extremely research document that goes into what they see that's happening out in the marketplace. And they also speculate based on what's happened before. Is it always right? No, but they're confident in making their speculations based on what they've seen before. Any information they have in front of them. And they also will tell you right, right there in the very beginning. Past performance, you know, does not always need to kick in on future results. But I'm very much a go cloud forward based on my confidence on what I've seen in the past.

  Doug Draper 8:39

  Yeah, yeah. You know, I was trying to get cute with quotes here. And I was like, Okay, what are some quotes with stability, and there weren't a whole lot of them. It was all about, you know, well behaved women never make history type of thing, right? And you gotta go for it and no regret. So, you know, calculate it. Your key thing, Pete, that that is spot on is information, you need information to move forward. And we're kind of in you know, you could get information, you can come in and get McKinsey or some consultant and they could tell you both sides of the story on what to do. It's the information that's key, so I totally get it. I appreciate that. Yeah,

  Pete Mento 9:14

  my mom, Mackenzie, my feeling about Mackenzie, man, I'm not a fan. But it's really it's really what it comes down to is who do you get your information from? Are they a trusted source, but someone's got to make that decision? I think Mark, Mark was really pushing towards that as this is not a time to sit there and overthink it. You're gonna have to make a decision like that racecar driver, you're gonna have to make that split decision to go around or to go through it but you got to make a decision. You can't just sit here and and overthink it. And this is a business where sitting on that critical information and not making a decision until it's too late will wreck a business. You got to make a move here. This is an excellent book. I can't wait recommend it enough to people in this business by jakka, willing, Nick, where it's called Extreme Ownership, and one of the things that he talks about again and again is is firing cover. You know, it's it's a military tactic where someone is, someone's covering you while you're firing and enemies and moving. So, in the same is involved in our business, you're gonna have to make decisions while other people are sitting there and considering what's going on, you're gonna have to cover your your people while other people are actually actioning. So actually, you still got to be making action, you've always got to be moving always got to be making move on the target and gaining ground. And I've seen companies I've worked for companies, or companies recently, that just didn't make decisions. They rethought it. They looked at data for too long. And then opportunities pass them by. Don't be that guy, Doug. Yeah,

  Doug Draper 10:50

  yeah, I think we're on the same page. So moving forward, do you use that your, your first or your next up, my friend, your first topic, whatever

  Pete Mento 10:59

  fits with this, right? So there's a lot of bcos right now. And for those who don't know, we get way too comfortable using terms in this business. And a PCO is a beneficial cargo owner. And that is a company that's big enough to negotiate their own rates. So a BCo is a very large importer, exporter, who has the ability to negotiate their own rates with a carrier. And he's very large bcos are out there right now negotiating rates with the carriers. And they're finding their themselves able to negotiate extremely beneficial rates. So $1,000.40 foot ocean rates out of Chinese bass ports into the west coasts are common, which leads me to believe that less than $1,000 rates are attainable. This is all gonna depend on the type of agreement that you're able to get to terms that are in that agreement. So that doesn't mean that they're there for everyone. But they're there. And this also gets to what you and I had been, I suppose, predicting, which is that the the unwritten alliances that were going on between carriers were going to fall apart, and I'm not ready to call it a war. I'm not ready to call it a war, I don't think that they're out there trying to stab each other in the back. What I think that is going on is that they're all aggressively trying to sell their space, that they're all out in the marketplace, doing everything they can to ensure some degree of competitiveness. But I don't think that they're out there trying to sync one another not yet. I don't think things are quite that dire. But we're back, back out there where if you've got significant volume, and you're able to negotiate in your own terms as a BCo, you're gonna find yourself getting some ridiculous rates. So for people that are out in the spot market, you're gonna find those kinds of rates, as well within vos and freight forwarders. This is a great year to not be under contract with the carrier. This is a great year to not be out under contract with an MBO. Like you said, Man, speculation and change. This is going to be a fun year to be out there have cargo.

  Doug Draper 13:20

  Yeah. So the one one comment on that Pete is be careful of the undercoating. So my, my point being and we've talked about, you know, the different connectors, so 1000 bucks just for that reference points you get to get to the port is all fine and dandy, but they're peeling back the intricacies of that right when you get to the port, let's just use LA, congestion, labor, fuel, regulations, the whole nine yards, which just means check, check, check, check, check for additional fees and charges and deferment. So if you're out there, negotiating pat yourself on the back, but make sure you don't forget about the undercoating because that could crush yourself when you're sitting in a boardroom talking to your boss about how kick ass or negotiating skills are.

  Pete Mento 14:09

  Yeah, that's why I said like, depending on terms, like, it's the same thing about free days, it doesn't talk about demurrage. And detention, you know, and this is, you know, it doesn't say anything you know about all those. It doesn't, it doesn't guarantee you anything about whether you make it on the ship with the best rates ever. might not say Oh, man. So just be sure you know, what you negotiate and get involved in these terms. And I think this is also going to be an opening for some of the smaller freight forwarders that are out there, as well that do have good relationships with the carrier to that can get your stuff on on a ship, actually make some hay this year. So this is gonna be it's gonna be a fun couple of years. I think for people that have done a good job of developing relationships to show some of their other services in gray and freight forwarding and distribution, as well as their techniques. algae to let that shine for the for the customers. It's gonna be it's gonna be a good year to get yourself back out there on the street. I think some salespeople are gonna have a good time reestablishing the brands.

  Doug Draper 15:10

  Yeah. Greed, greed. Our man halftime, obviously brought to us by CAP logistics and keep pushing the buttons in the cave up in Breckenridge, Colorado. You and I wouldn't be here without those guys so yeah, all right man. I like your, your halftime Why don't you go first on this one.

  Pete Mento 15:31

  So I get caught up in a lot of Netflix binges. And unfortunately, I came back from Mardi Gras and that's been over three or four weeks now. I came back from Mardi Gras with some kind of crud I don't know if it was on some of the beads I got that were important from God knows where. But I I've been sick for quite a while I'm just starting to feel better. I got some antibiotics and shaken. But I ended up binging a lot of TV a while I was laying around all sick. And I watched the show people have been talking about and it's called Outlast. So diet. I know you watch some of the survival shows like I do. Have you seen the Outlast yet?

  Doug Draper 16:15

  No. I have not heard about it.

  Pete Mento 16:19

  Yeah, I think it's relatively new. But I've changed it all over over last weekend. And Outlast is a team survival game, where the idea is that you were dropped off in the middle of Alaska that gave you some basic survival tools. And then as a team you had to outlast the other teams and it was for a million dollars. So whomever was left in your team, when the last team outlasted the others won a million bucks if there were four of you to split the million if there were two of us but the million but there were precious few rules. And in something that made social media and regular media as it were, people got pretty nasty. So they one team stole another team sleeping bags. In a dastardly move, dastardly move, they stole the other team sleeping bags, people steal each other's food. They sabotaged one another's rafts, you know, like because there's no rules and Outlast. And I'm watching something like this is this is ridiculous. Okay, so we're supposed to believe that this is as real as it gets, you know, and I'm watching some like now, this is a fatal flaw. Because if this was real, and this was my friends, we would just kill all of you. Like if this was if this was my friends I like if we were in our mid 20s We would just go to your camp, like in broad daylight I wouldn't even wait till the middle of the night. And we would just choke you all out, kill you all take all your crap, you would go to the next camp and kill you all and take all your crap and then the game will be over by for like this, this this this wouldn't even be good television. Like if we would just roll up on you and say you're quitting now or my friends and I are going to kill all of you like we are folks. This isn't going to end well like we will be drowning people have you worn boring folks. It would be great television from one episode like this this is not this is not how this would go like if if we're going to go that way like if you can steal people's crap and be psychologically cruel to him I'd give you one great episode. Yeah, that's about it would be returning the like the sopranos meet a bunch of hikers and that's that's how this would go. I'd be breaking kneecaps and and waterboarding people folks hung up by their ankles from a tree like it would not it would be it'd be more like a like a horror movie than it would be a Netflix survival show. Maybe the horror movie right now but like Do you see where I'm going with this? Not as scary as they made it out to seem

  Doug Draper 19:03

  Yeah, well beautiful. It's yeah it's a Monday Pete if you're that fired up about this on a Monday I do not I do not want to see you later

  Pete Mento 19:12

  on where he's she's going to take us off my pick up a rock and knock her out like what is he so worried about? Like she was a buckle five he should be knocking her out. Let's see so worried about if you can't take her back and take her out with a rear naked choke what kind of a man is this guy like I was all kinds of angry about this? Yeah.

  Doug Draper 19:29

  Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Wait, before I jump into mind, I will say that if you're looking for a new show, to watch with your significant other I have found a show called shrinking. Love it. Love it. Love. It

  Pete Mento 19:47

  is fabulous. That in the other one on Apple TV is the reluctant traveler with Eugene Levy. I love it. Yeah.

  Doug Draper 19:52

  Yeah. Yeah. My wife is loves that one. So anyway, there you go. Free For the feedback on on, on streaming. So this is one, it's a little bit delayed from an event that happened first part of this month called Operation stimulus. You actually spoke at the event, you know, COVID, jacks up time and warped everything, but I think you spoke maybe seven years ago or something. But it's COVID killed it for a couple of years. We bring in kids from all over the country getting degrees in supply chain logistics, they get a they get a fictitious problem a case, they come to Denver. They talk about their solution. They get there, they're judged. They, we combined it with a professional conference and some breakout speakers. The Denver transportation club had hosted it for decades. And this year, Colorado State University has taken it over. And I think that's where it's gonna land for the future. So, one, I'm glad it's back on the radar. I would encourage everybody to go to Colorado State Business School website to check out the details of it had a phenomenal keynote speaker Jimmy Everhart, who started this company you may have heard of called fluid trucking. Great guy was really glad to be able to interview him. So here's the gist of it. Indiana University won the competition. First time they'd been there in a while. We had phenomenal attendance. It was great. And here's the cool thing. Pete Not. Hopefully this gentleman. I can't remember his name. I apologize. He was a student from Texas Tech. And I was just, you know, shooting the shit with him over lunch. And he's like, Hey, I really liked your show. And I'm like, what? Like, how did you even find it? You know, you're you're 20 Something kid going through supply chain at Texas Tech. He's like, Oh, yeah. I love that, you and Pete that. So it made me feel good that there's actually some kids, or maybe I shouldn't feel good that they're listening to us on how our industry is. This is the street smarts of the book smarts with our industry. But my whole point is I'm glad operations seamless is back. I'm glad that we have people listening to us. And want to shout out to the Texas Tech crew and say Thanks for Thanks for listening and getting your perspective of our industry from Pete myself.

  Pete Mento 22:15

  Well, 333 Shout ups that first of all, I was born in Lubbock, Texas, where Texas Tech is. So this is my hometown. Second of all, my mom is an alumni of Texas Tech. She's a Red Raider. And third of all, speaking, it was magnificent. Man, I really love taking part in operations simulator, it was one heck of a program. So if anybody who watches the professionals that that watch this that are in the Colorado area, and I know we have a lot of them. If you're ever asked to take part in it, I cannot recommend it enough.

  Doug Draper 22:53

  Yeah, yeah. It would be first week of March 2024. So anyway, all right. That's all I had to say. I should have made mention that about three weeks ago. But thank you

  Pete Mento 23:03

  literally can everybody what you got feedback from?

  Doug Draper 23:07

  All right, well, you know, air ocean, ground, air, air, ocean grant, oh, and rail. We haven't talked about rail in a while we talked about rail. So yeah, there was some stuff that came out recently about the Canadian Pacific and the Kansas City Southern merger. And the official date that it's going to be inked is April 14. So I was starting to think about it. And I was like, when would when did this all start happening between the battle between the CN and the CP and who's going to take over Kansas City Southern and that was all the way back in like third quarter, second, third quarter of 2021. So it's it's been a long time coming a lot of regulations, a lot of, you know, groups that has to go through. But so here's I'm not going to do a total recap of it. But CPE bought Kansas City Southern for 31 billion with a B, even with that acquisition, the acquisition, they're still the smallest of the class one railroads if you can believe that. But here, here's the deal. I love it. And I think that's gotten tremendous potential because it's the first rail line to connect North America, Mexico, United States, Canada. It goes right up through the spine of the United States. And that hasn't been done before. And I think there's lots of opportunity to really take the rail industry to the next level. So I think that's pretty cool. And it truly is a big deal. All of the major leadership is coming from CPE. So it'll be based in Calgary, with the US headquarters and in the Kansas City area. And I was looking at the map. Pete The last thing I'll say about this one, I was trying to get a map up here, that what cities in the US are going to benefit and looking at the map. I think that as crazy as it sounds Davenport, Iowa, in looking at the map, and I'm not gone, you know, extensive but looks like Davenport, Chicago, maybe a little bit of Milwaukee, but primarily Davenport, from what I've seen, is the connector area to get things leak, you know, slingshot it up into Canada. So I think I'm gonna write into the city council of Davenport, and say, Here's your new slogan to help with the growth of the connectors up there is get your ass to Davenport. So if you see that in some marketing, promotions, Pete, that's where it comes from, I will take credit for that. But if you're in the rail industry, you support the rail industry, or you're just looking to move to Davenport, Iowa, and then get your ass there because that's, that's where it's going to happen here is this. If this merger completes,

  Pete Mento 25:51

  I'm quite certain that that will never be part of the marketing. From the fine, fine people of Davenport. home to many, many of the great fighters of the UFC, by the way. I doubt I doubt that will ever be it you see 31

  Doug Draper 26:09

  billion. Yes, sir. Yeah.

  Pete Mento 26:14

  Wow. The the bank that used to be Credit Suisse was worth just 8 billion last Friday. Yeah, yeah, it is a massive, massive deal. It's incredible. That's the thing think that there hadn't really been one unified North American, Canadian Mexican, like one railway that unified all of this continent is pretty incredible. Up until now,

  Doug Draper 26:44

  it'll be interesting to see railroads don't move quickly. But hopefully we'll see. We'll see some creativity ingenuity to really, you know, with the near showing and all the things that we've talked about and how things are evolving with procurement. And in sourcing, it'll be interesting to see if they can leverage that quickly, and, and make an impact for everybody. So

  Pete Mento 27:05

  it just puts it into scope writes how large these companies are, when you consider that one of the world's largest most prequel used to be one of the largest, most prestigious banks in the world, just is dwarfed by the size of a railroad, which isn't even the world's biggest. That's incredible.

  Doug Draper 27:27

  Yeah, yeah. All right, we always like to end with your final take piece. So your

  Pete Mento 27:34

  report came out recently, by the Center for Strategic and International Studies on that was asking a question, it's been a lot of people's minds. Well, I shouldn't say a lot of people, a lot of nerds minds. Why hasn't the free trade agreement between the United Kingdom and the United States been ratified? Because it's kind of a slam dunk, it's sort of a no brainer. And why is it a no brainer, it's a no brainer, for a lot of reasons. One of them being that the United Kingdom, now that it's outside of the band is of Euro proper, could really use the stimulus in the United States could really use the, the market for their goods and vice versa. And there's a lot of, of synergy between these two marketplaces. And also for the, for the great things that can happen with regarding technology and ecommerce. And it turns out that there's a lot of reasons that you would not think, Well, the biggest being Ireland. And, you know, today is the 20th. We just had a hole. I'm outside of Boston, and boy, boy, was it just St. Pat's up here. So you know, St. Patrick's day pretty much extends through the entire weekend up here in New England, and Ireland being one of the main reasons that the entire agreement has not been ratified. So the reason for that, of course, being the Good Friday accords. And when the European Union and the UK split, they had a real problem, because Northern Ireland and Ireland are two different countries. And so how trade transits across those now, one being part of the European Union, one not. So how do you account for the United Kingdom having an FTA with the US and Northern Ireland? Not in this, this becomes a real issue with regards for trade. So that is actually something that is holding it up because of the United States is desire to try to find a way to unify Ireland. I mean, this is it's something that you're coming out of a Tom Clancy novel, and there's a small cadre of congressmen that are trying to find a way to hold that up. Also holding up banking regulations between the US and the United Kingdom. The agricultural requirements, as you're well aware, Great Britain and the United Kingdom have much stricter agricultural requirements with regards to biological, biological requirements for the way that we handle organic and inorganic foods. One of the biggest is immigration. Under the current writing of the US United Kingdom, free trade agreement, Americans and Brits will be allowed to work in both countries without thesis. And that's, that's a pretty big deal. So we'll see where this goes. But the time is ripe. And it will be a pretty big win for the Biden administration that get passed. But unfortunately, Congress is on its way.

  Doug Draper 30:45

  Yeah. Yeah, I I'm with you, I don't understand why this hasn't been done. And here's, here's my take on just the simple kid from Kansas perspective on it, right. It UK separated right, England separated. And I know there's different geographies, and I'm probably making certain people mad, my references, but if the US tries to negotiate as a collective, right, and not take it for face value, which is the whole reason that they separated from the EU, it's just gonna get muddied and unnecessary noise, right? So my, my take is, if those congressmen try to force it together, to bring it all together and negotiate as three, not one, it's just gonna get convoluted. And oh, by the way, that the more we aligned with the UK, the better we're going to be positioned to deal with some of the issues out there with China, and everything else, you know, our adversaries, if you will. So, I don't understand the point of that. I think it's, I think it's gonna muddy the waters. There was separation for a reason negotiate the individual countries as a separation. That's my take, quit jacking around, and let's get something done. That's my take from the kid from Wichita, Kansas out there looking at it through my lens. Yeah,

  Pete Mento 32:06

  I've never taken you ever two hours prior in Boston. They might actually.

  Doug Draper 32:13

  BE KIDDING me, I get stopped if I went into that place.

  Pete Mento 32:17

  But you know, the long story short, both both countries, really, the United States and United Kingdom really want this to pass. But this is the problem with foreign trade agreements, and the President not having what we call fast track authority, because he's not able to just get an up or down vote, Congress is able to play around with the details of the agreement. And as such, we can have some some futzing around by both sides. So we'll see. Ultimately, this will get passed. Ultimately the figure it out, just like they figured out Brexit. And we'll work it out.

  Doug Draper 32:54

  All right. Well, I think that's it. I think we just ran our course on another edition of global trade this week. Of course cap logistics were thank you for the platform. Pete want to thank you for your insight. Love it. The man in black out there and in New Hampshire, sorry, I called it blue. But the most important thing Pete You got to remember for this episode is get your ass to Davenport.

  Pete Mento 33:20

  Davenport, Iowa man, to truly underrated town. I've been there. I've been there.

  Doug Draper 33:27

  Good. All right. Well, thanks, everybody for listening and joining us this week. And Pete, we'll catch you in seven days, my friend. See you next week, everybody. Thanks. Alright, thanks. Take care.